SEEIN' RED Interview (from "EXPANSION OF LIFE" no.14) -- Ok then, for starters, how do you feel about coming to Japan? Anything you're looking forward to do during your stay in Japan? Paul: Yeah, we are really looking forward to go to Japan so we feel excited and at the same time we are a bit nervous as well, because this will be our very first time that we will visit Japan and we don't know what to expect. But something tells us that it's gonna be a great new experience! We are really looking forward to see your country and experience your culture. Hopefully there is some time to enjoy the country-sights and the cities (we heared a lot of great stories about Tokyo, Sapporo and Nagoya) and see some history as well, like for example the ancient temples etc. And we are looking forward to see what punk in Japan is all about, most people and bands that we know ,and did visit Japan, are telling us that the Japanese punk scene is fantastic so we are excited. But as said before: This is our very first time that we visit Japan so everything will be NEW to us so we are surely taken by surprise! Jos: I am really excited about coming over to japan. it will be my first visit to an asian country and i guess there will be some culture shock for sure, but that is not important. i know quite some bands from japan and am excited to play with them. people who have been overthere before told me that the japanese society is very different from ours. it will be interesting to see what the differences are. i just want to get over there with an open mind and form my own opinions. i bought a book on japan and from what i have read i am getting the feeling the country side must be amazing as well as the cultural stuff. I am just very gratefull that people are putting so much effort into bringing us over. it is very much appreciated and we can;t express that enough i guess. -- For us, D.I.Y. is not just related to making music and distributing it, but also everything in life, from food, shelter, transportation, community. We take it as a method to maintain an autonomous kind of lifestyle. It's actually a very simple idea, to create by yourself what is necessary for life with just simple, everyday things around us, but simultaneously, it can also possibly counteract and paralyze authorities and it's structure, such as the music industry, corporates, police, governments, etc. As we can clearly see from your song, "D.I.Y. or Fucking Die", your music and beliefs are strongly based on the D.I.Y. ethic. Please tell us your thoughts on D.I.Y. Jos: As far as it is possible i try to support the whole DIY thought as well. being a member of a punkband is probably the situation i can control the most together with paul and olav. I mean, we are in control of our own music and decide what to do or not to do. same goes for supporting and helping out other bands. as for the rest of my life, i am not really materialistic, though i must admit i enjoy some luxory and comfort in my life. for many punks that may sounds stupid, but i don't care. i do not feel the need to live in a filthy place or something like that. my ultimate goal would be to get a house together with a bunch of good people and create a nice space to live and maybe even grow own vegetables etc. but not in the way the [hippie] communes did by excluding themselves from society. i think it is very effective to be a part of society without giving up ideals etc. Paul: Well the whole d.i.y. ethic to us was first just music related: running a tape-label/record label, making our own fanzine(s),making our own t-shirts, stickers & buttons,releasing our own records or in co-orperation with friends within the d.i.y. network and more stuff like that. Later on we took it further like being active in the local squat-scene which resulted in squatting places where people could live, where we could organize concerts, start a punkbar/shop/meeting place and a space for political activities. With those squats we realized our own autonomous places where we could show the outside world that there is more to life than the system we all live in. That inspired new young people to get involved and start d.i.y. bands,zines,art-collectives etc. So from: Doing It Yourself- we also got to: Doing It Together! Which is great and as you say:" it can also possibly counteract & paralyze authorities and it's srtucture...". But on the other hand we also must be realistic about the fact that we are living in a capitalist system and that system won't go away with our day-to-day lifestyle choices...we cannot withdraw from capitalism and it's mode of production! Revolution is necessary to change modes of production. I'm saying this because we have been involved in the d.i.y.(punk-)movement for 25 years now and we have seen all the ups and downs, sometimes the scene was big and sometimes it was small,people come and go all the time, and just a few really commited people will stay true to the d.i.y. ethic/'autonomous life syle. And in that perspective d.i.y. can change our lives and to some extend our lifestyle but it won't end capitalism as it is. It needs more than that!! In fact you see that the authorities do everything in their power to stop our movement, and especially since the "War on terrorism", the system got more oppresive and repressive towards the d.i.y. movement and all other radical left forces in society. So in many ways things have changed a lot for the worse....BUT we won't give up and keep on fighting the power, because life is struggle and struggle is life! And in many ways the whole D.I.Y. ethic can empower us in this long and hard struggle. -- It had been a while for all of us to listen to the Ebullition comp, "Give Me Back" and we became really excited listening to "Bigot". One of us was reminded of when he first listened to this song, it was a really nice surprise for him to discover a fast and aggresive male hardcore band singing about female/homosexual rights and liberation. In the song, "Bigot", you strongly condemn bigots who are homophobic, and you also have a song with a similar theme called "Fuck Male Domination". Please tell us the background of how these songs were born. In other words, what were the inspirations or motives for these songs that address sexual discrimination? Paul: These songs were born out of our disgust for any form of discrimination happening in our society may it be on race,sex or gender! And you know Holland is known as a liberal country and to some extend Holland is one of the most liberal countries in the world but under this liberal surface there's still a lot of shit going on...i mean to say: Holland is just another capitalist country with a liberal mask on, still capitalism is the dominant ideology. We are all prisoners of the society in which we live. That society decides our horizons, our way of thinking and feeling. And we all know that this society breeds racism & sexism, to just name a few evils, and we do witness homophobia and discrimination of women in our country, in our neighbourhoods and on the places where we work. In many ways it's happening close to home,also because we have female & homosexual friends, and from them we hear the stories of discrimination and oppression in todays society, and we want to resist that oppresive bullshit and speak our minds about it. One way to speak our minds is through our lyrics. And we also wrote these songs because in the punkscene itself we do see homophobic and male-dominated tendencies going on, and we wanted to confront those "punks" with our anger about it. We don't want to turn a blind eye to the bad shit happening in our OWN punkcommunities, cos all these things are not just happening in the "real world" but also inside the punkscene. We all know the stories about krishna & christian punk/hc bands that openly say that homosexuality according to their religions is unnaturral or a disease etc, we know that punks still use words like FAGGOTS when they refer to homosexual people, and we know that for a part the punk/hc scene is still male-dominated sometimes leading to blatant sexism or even worse!(like last year when on a hardcore festival in the USA a girl got raped by some drunk punks!). So we always must be alert. And you know the struggle for the rights of women and of lesbians,gays and bi-sexuals is a struggle for basic human rights and REAL FREEDOM because there's no real freedom as long as others are oppressed. Any political or revolutionary movement which looks on the oppression of women and homosexuals as a minor and unimportant question, will carry on that oppression in their own movement and thus into the future/new society! Jos: first of all i think it is really important to think in terms of humans and not in terms of male/female. that is the first step towards equality. like most of the other topics covered in our lyrics, the reasons to write the songs you mentioned were basically rage and anger. being angry because you witness bigotry and sexism/sexual discrimination in society as well in the so called progressive punk scene. on a personal note, i came out as a homosexual just 2 months ago and that was a huge step for me personally. as strange as it may sound, i always felt that homosexuality was more or less accepted, but the sad thing is that it isn't. there's still a lot of homophobia around. i am really happy to see how my friends and family reacted to this all. they treat it as something normal. -- It's been 2 years since the day of the invasion of Iraq began. Do you remember what you were doing on that day (March 20th, 2003)? Also, what are your thoughts on the "war against terror" led by the American government (and corporates) and which the rest of the world was dragged into? Jos:i remember being in front of the tv that day and was shocked, shocked because there was still some hope inside of me it would not happen. two years later and what is achieved? loads of dead [innocent] people, a rise of fundimentalism. billions and billions of dollars spend every day on the war itself, whilst there are so many other goals it could be spended on better. the war on terror is just a way to oppress people. under the name of terrorism, governments can come up with stricter laws and oppression. it makes me sad that people actully believe that the intentions of the government are good. in my opinion it is just a battle for power. it doesn't matter who the enemy is. if one statues falls, a new one will rise. another disturbing thing is the fact that because of this, the world is divided in pro- or anti-terrorists. at least, that is the way the us governments sees it. sad to see that the lyrics to the Larm song "puppets on a string" are still up-to-date. Paul: I was at work when i heard that they had started the invasion and that the first bombs where dropped on Iraq....and i felt shocked, angry and most of all pretty helpless, because what the fuck can we do against these imperialist powers and their big military powers. It's 2003 and those bastards are still thinking that war is a "humantarian" way to solve the problems of this world. They inplant democracy- western style through fucking war! There were big anti-war demonstrations all over our country(& the rest of the world)and that gave everybody some hope but at the same time you know: We can't really stop this war. In fact in 2005 it's still going on and lots of useless blood has been shed and billions of dollars spend on the military madness and because of that all around the world economies are in crisis. The "War On Terror" is just another excuse, like the "cold war"against the "communist" world", for the imperialist ambitions of the USA and their allies. The american government backed by monopoly/multinational corporations want to export their way of life/the free-market-enterprize-system and capital abroad for higher profits. But they don't bring progress to the world just the threat of war, environmental destruction and contemporary militarism(the military-industry is america's biggest industry and an very important economical factor and all the imperialists countries (including Holland!) profit from war or its preparations!). And let's face it: The war against Iraq had nothing to do with the "war against terror" it was a war for oil and the future controll of the USA & its allies over the Iraq oil-fields. Apart from that, the "war against terror" is also a way to oppress your own people in the USA, in England, in Holland etc etc. Because since 9/11 and since Bush had said:"You are either with us or the terrorists", we have seen lots of new oppressive laws and regulations being implanted in our society. Suddenly our so called democratic governments do show their friendly-fascist faces and the "free" countries are not that "free" anymore but slowly turning into a police-state. Since the "war against terror", war and new threats of war are constantly on the political agenda of the world, and it did push the world everywhere into a deep crisis. A crisis felt by all the poor and working people of the world....but still those bastards in power let us believe that this "war against terror" is bringing the world PEACE and DEMOCRACY....well we don't see that or feel that at all!!! -- In the song "Real Terrorist Is Imperialism", you sing "The real terrorist is imperialism/The armed resistnce against imperialism is never terrorism/Their struggle is right... Right!" For some people, at one glance, this may seem like a very radical idea, but to accuse someone who has the right to be angry and full of despair due to being unjustifiably and cruelly deprived of their family, friends, lovers, shelter, land and had no other choice but to express their resistance and anger for setting the facts straight of being a "terrorist", and then blindly criticizing that "terrorism is bad", is rather a dangerous thought. Is it safe to think that what you want to convey through this songs is that: if people keep receiving and accepting words such as "terrorist" and "terrorism" filtered through the governments and the mass media, then people might oversee something very important? Also, when you wrote this song, did you have a certain resistance movement in mind? Jos: paul may be able to answer this best. it are his lyrics. Paul: To some extend your question contains the answer. We wrote this song because the real terrorist is NOT the people, who are driven by oppression, unjustice, poverty and despair, to take up guns to fight their oppressors. We think these people are fighting the good fight. Or let me say it this way: During the second world war people who resisted the nazi-oppression were considered as partizans & freedom fighters and were seen as heroes. Now there are people who take up the guns for the same reasons: expressing their resistance against oppression,unjustice, poverty etc, and NOW they are labelled as "terrorists". We don't see any difference between the people who resisted the nazis and people who resist todays oppressors. And we also wanted to link it with imperialism, for example: on a daily basis every 3 seconds someone dies of hunger in this world...that's about 20 million people every year! That to us is REAL terrorism, where the rich of the world(= the imperialists)rather spend billions of dollars on their wars for more power and profits and all their other imperialist ambitions instead of FEEDING the world. So to us the real terrorists are Bush, Blair or in our own country Balkendende, who all support the war on Iraq and the "war against terrorism" and rather spend millions on the military madness (the war in iraq cost about 200 million each day!)or police-state measures in their countries instead of feeding/helping the poor in this world and in their own societies(there are lots of really poor people who need to be helped in our societies). So in the end you ask yourself: Who's the real terrorist? Those desperate people who fight their oppressors or those oppressors who get fucking richon the backs of the poor and working people, and let millions of people starve to death. And when i wrote this song i had several resistance movements in my mind, like the RED ARMY FACTION, RED BRIGADES,PKK, THE WEATHER MEN, THE BLACK PATHERS etc the ZAPATISTAS, SENDURO LUMINOSO,etc. And we must never just accept that word "terrorist" because like you said yourself filtered through the governments and the mass media they give it just a one-dimensial meaning: terrorism is bad!(at least in their eyes). But to just give one example: Nelson Mandela is NOW seen as a hero to most people in the world, but in the past his organization the ANC was seen as a "terrorist" organization by the same governments & media who now see him as the great Nelson Mandela...so you see how hypocritical they are. -- Your split 7" with Now Denial was a benefit release for the victims of police oppresion at the G8 Summit protest in Genoa, Italy. In these recent years, there has been a wave of huge protests against globalization in places like Genoa, Seattle, Prague, Cancun, but what are your thoughts on the growing anti-globalization/anti-capitlist movement? Many of your songs strongly criticize capitalism but what do you think are effective methods of resistance that punks like us can take against capitalism? Jos: i think that there should be no difference in resisting capitalism between punks and non punk. it is the same struggle isn't it? there are many methods to resist it. the obvious one being protsesting, but i am not sure if that will be always an effective one, especially if you see how demonstrations are being treated nowadays [loads of police violence and restrictions]. the movement itself should also focus on ways to inform the 'normal' public about the issues they are protesting against. this can be done simply by bringing up the subject on working places, universities schools. etc etc. i am a bit confused about what is the best method. years of demonstrating did not change a lot, but then again i strongly support the right to demonstrate and voice your opinion. Paul: The whole anti-globalization movement is a huge inspiration to all people involved in fighting capitalism, so ofcourse it did inspire us as well and that's why we did the split 7" with The Now-Denial in the first place; to show our solidarity and support for this movement. At the same time we also stay critical because there are also organizations within the anti-globalisation movement that just wants to manage misery or make globalization more 'democratic'.Others just fight for a place at the negotiating table. Groups like ATTAC want to avert the crisis through another tax policy (the Tobin Tax) and stuff like that. Whether they want it or not, they take part in keeping capitalism (and its system of crises)alive. We think the main goal should be a global movement against everyday capitalism! Effective methods of resistance against capitalism are all our efforts to critize capitalism, may it be through music/lyrics, films, poetry, posters, graffity, art, zines, theater etc. All these things may not bring capitalism down but it will influence people and hopefully change people's lives. I mean it was Punk that did change our lives as well, and our bands did change other people's lives so in many ways music, art, books, movies etc can change lives and that's a starting point. And the whole d.i.y. movement with its global network is a great example how we have build something that's powerfull to many many punks all around the world. But from there we must take it a step further; we must take part in political demonstrations, political & activist groups, we must take our anti-capitalist message out on the streets, to the schools & universities, to our workingplaces, our neighbourhoods etc. And UNITE with non-punk people who also want to tear down this capitalist system. Put your own existence at the centre, unite and organize yourselves against oppressive conditions, all forms of discrimination, against work and misery..etc. Try to find YOUR way in the sphere of exploitation and together look for tendencies of resistance, search for the subversion, the rebellion, the posibility of revolt in this everyday life, we all have the potential to change our own lives and that of others and from there we can take it further and fight for revolutionary change. But as said before it's a long and hard road and it needs commitment. -- By the way, since Larm had started in the mid 80's (hope we're correct...), you have been involved in the punk scene for a very, very long time. How old are you now? Jos: i am 40 years old. Paul: Well Larm did start around 1980 (before that we also played together in short-lived bands like: The Sextons, Disturbers, Total Chaoz) so actually this year 2005 is our 25th anniversary!! Jos is 40 years old, Olav is 42 and Paul is 44...pretty damn old! -- What is the basic motivation for being active as a band and keeping it up throughout all these years? Jos: i guess friendship is a strong motivation as well as the need to voice opinions and meet people. besides that, we really enjoy being in a band and show people you do not need to be very good musicians. Paul: Our friendship, Our commitment to our ideals and our love for punkmusic and the d.i.y. movement. And the FUN that we still have after all these years playing together making this music/noise. And seein'red is a really great outlet for all our anger, frustration and rage we feel about the world we live in! -- You seem to have also been involved in serious political activities, such as being involved in the New Communist Party of Netherlands, but among all your various forms of activities, is music (punk/hardcore) and playing in a band, the thing that ultimately turns you on the most? Also, please share with us any moments that you sensed or experienced the power of music (punk/hardcore). Jos: music has proved its power of the past decades. i am well aware of the fact that punk is a style of music that is not really easy accesible, but it is the music i enjoy the most. i am often very motivated when i see bands play live or read lyrics i can relate to. that is the power of music in it's ultimate form. Paul: Let me say that me and Olav are no longer members of the NCPN, we left that party because we could no longer identify with their program & political line. But it was a good learning process and politically it did make us stronger. Playing in bands turns me on the most because in the end that's the product of your very own creativity and that's really empowering. But as said earlier...music won't change the world so you have to go beyond that and get involved in politics/activism. The power of music to me is: that music did change my life and what's so fucking great is that we now hear from people that our music did change their lives. Because of our music/lyrics people started their own bands or got involved in politics and things like that. I mean its amazing if you get letters or e-mails from punk-kids from all over the world who tell you that our music/noise has inspired them and had a live-changing effect/infleunce on them. Or that you play a concert and afterwards people tell you how much they were touched by our music, words and the things we had to say. That's the power of music that it gives meaning to people's lives. -- What do you think is the most effective approach for communism to be realized? Would it be through state socialism? Please tell us about your revolution. Jos: damn, this is really difficult. my revolution would be one without violence, but i am well aware of the fact that this will be impossible. also, it seems to be that the majority of people are still very content with the situation they are in. i guess things need to get even worse before there will be an uprise of the people. Paul: Well any struggle between the people and the bourgeoisie involves the state. The state is the crux of the capitalist system. The overthrow of the capitalist system cannot take place without the overthrow of the capitalist state. But communism is not about grabbing hold of the capitalist state and wield it for its own purposes(=state socialism); and history has shown us that state-socialism didn't really work and we MUST learn from the mistakes made in the past! But as communists we do understand that the abolition of the state cannot be accomplished with just the stroke of a pen. So in the first phase of communism there will be a proletarian state. But with the abolition of private property and classes, the state will have been dismantled and disbanded. The transition to the classless-communist society is not a singular event. The transition from capitalism to communism is a series of fundamental transformations, a series of revolutions within revolutions. These revolutions affect all aspects of society like: a revolution in politics, an economic revolution to secure the abolition of private property and to place the means of production in common ownership, a cultural revolution to destroy the poverty of culture. This is pretty much the theoratical part of "our revolution". In practice it means to utilize your revolutionary potential and the most effective approach is by organizing and fighting. In our punkcommunity, in our neighbourhoods/community organizations, in our workingplaces, in our schools & universaties, international solidarity groups, etc..., wherever there is a need to fight/resist, people should build organizations/collectives(union makes us strong!). And finally turn it into a revolutionary movement that can smash capitalism! I'm not saying that we are on the threshold of revolution right now, but just looking down the road and looking at the potential, one of the things that leads to a revolutionary situation is that thousands of people here in Holland, and millions of people worldwide feel that something is intolerable about the current world and want a better world. And that holds a potential for struggle now and for revolution as things unfold. -- The song "Colourblind" has a profound meaning to us especially because of a recent incident that occured in Japan, which involves two Kurdish refugees being forcibly deported back to Turkey . These Kurds were recognized as "mandate refugees" by the UNHCR since if they were sent back to Turkey, they were in danger of facing serious harm. The Japanese government went ahead and deported them anyway. This act by the Japanese government was a clear act of racism and ignoring international law. Doors to Japan are tightly closed against refugees, only admitting 26 people as refugees in the year 2001, which is of course and by far, the lowest figure among "advanced" (we mean, selfish and rich) countries. We feel that in Japan, there is a tendency to separate "Japanese" from "Foreigners", but how is the situation in your country? Do you closely sense racism or exclusivism in day-to-day life in Holland? Jos: since there have been some killings overhere [pim fortuyn and theo van gogh] society made a drastic move towards the right. also the fact that people are scared of terrorists contributes to that. especially young people are being sucked into racism and nationalism. there seems to be a huge breeding gorund for those ideas nowadays. it is very scary. also the fact that the government treats a lot of left wing groups as terrorists is not helping out at all. then ofcourse you have the people who say that our country is full. no immigrants should be allowed, even if they are political refugees. all in all the situation right now is really bad and the government just seems to fuel these ideas by their methods. Paul: In Holland you just see the samen tendency going on, the current government do also send (or should we say DEPORT) so called "mandate refugees" back to their (home-)countries the refugee flew from. And its our government that decides if those countries are "safe" and/or "democratic" again. And just like what's happening in Japan, is happening here in Holland as well, the dutch government deported Kurdisch refugees(notably from the PKK)back to Turkey, and Refugees from Afghanistan back to Afghanistan etc, while we all know that those countries are NOT safe or politically stable or far from "democratic". A lot of refugees face seriously harm because of their political beliefs etc. The same dutch government also has installed one of the strictest asylum laws in dutch history, so it's really hard for a refugee to get into Holland nowadays. And since 9/11 and the "war on terrorism" you really sense a lot of racism in our society, especially towards moslim people. And you see a rise of nationalism and therefore neo-nazi & so called 'white power' groups & organizations. There's has been a big political swing to the right here in Holland and the killings of Pim Fortuyn & Theo van Gogh has created a political climate of racism, exclusivism and blatant nationalism. -- Japan in recent days has become even more a monitered society, with increasing amounts of monitering cameras in the streets and monitering systems of personal information. Strangely enough, the public response to government control and administration has been, for some reason and to our wonder, a postive and quiet one. It's becoming more and more unforgiving and relentless towards "dissidents". How is the situation in Holland? We heard that people in Holland are forced by law to carry an ID card and Japan might be next to come up with such a binding law. How does it feel to have to carry an ID card around all the time? Jos: like my mother said: it reminds me of the second world war. i guess that sums it up really well. why should you be asked for your identification all the time. to quote discharge: 'this is state control' Paul: I think in many ways Japan and Holland (and most other capitalist countries) follow the same reppresive line towards their "own" citizens. Because we see the same thing happening here! Cameras in the streets are a common sight in nearly every city ,and most people respond to it in a positive way. And that's because the propaganda of our authority do work really well; it's part of their "making Holland safe again" campaign. Again since 9/11 and the "war on terrorism" the world has changed rapidly and the people in power took that " terrorism scare" to brainwash their citizens into all the new laws & regulations against "terrorism"like: camera observation, more police and so called city-watchers in the streets, more freedom to tab telephones & computers, more reppression against dissidents & "subversive" elements etc. And the new law to carry and ID card/passport all the time. It does feel fucked up because we NEVER had to carry an ID and now you have to and that feels uncomfortable and it makes you feel even more like some fucking prisoner of this society. It's even worse if you are "coloured" or have a "foreign" apperance because the cops will judge people on that, just like they judge you on the way you dress...i mean if you look like a punk or just dress extreme, cops will probably take notice of you and if they suspect you they now can ask for your ID, and if you don't carry it, you have to go to jail or pay 50 euros! And you really wonder: does this fucking ID card really make our society a more "safe & terrorist" free society?? It's total nonsense! It's just a law to keep all the people in line and in that way the capitalist system gets more and more oppressive towards their citizens. -- Also another recent incident that happened in Japan, in one of the biggest cities called Nagoya, was a forced removal of homeless people's housings in a public park. This cruel act by the authority of choosing the coldest time of the year to kick people out of their home is none other than an act of murder. The Japanese government has always been ignorant and inconsiderate of the basic rights of homeless people and what they deserve (even though it was the government that threw them out on to the streets in the first place). How is the situation of the homeless people and aid for homeless people in your country? Fill us in with some information about the homeless situation in Holland/Europe along with labor issues that are relevant. Jos: interesting issue. overhere in amersfoort there seem to be 400+ homeless people. a lot of them have been driven out of other cities. the tactics are as follows: cities clean their streets of the homeless and make them go to other cities. the other cities do the same and so the have to move again. instead of focusing on why these people are homeless, it seems that they are just trying to get rid of them. so to wrap it up: they are getting rid of the people, but not of the problem -- We hear that in Holland and the surrounding countries, using bicycles as a means of transportation is encouraged and that many cities have bicycle lanes. One of us once stumbled upon an interview in which Paul comments that he like to ride his bicycle. We also love to ride our bicycles around Tokyo just for the sheer fun of it, but also for environmental reasons and as one form of protest against oil consumption. But the sad fact is that Japan really does a good job of supporting it's car industry (sigh...) and there are very, very few if any bicycle lanes in the city which makes it very dangerous to go around on bicycle. What do you like about bicycles and cycling? Also, are there lots of protests or movements using bicycles like Critical Mass going on in Holland? Jos: there used to be a critical mass in amsterdam every month, not anymore though. we use car[s] for transportation to concerts. otherwise we bike or go by train. bycicling is an easy form of transportation and fun in good weather :). Paul: All 3 of us use our bikes on a daily basis, we use it as a transport to go to work,go to the city etc and in our free time we use our mountain-bikes ride & sport. I think Holland is a country where almost everyone rides a bike, yeah even the fucking cops!. As a band we only use a car to go to the shows and everything else we do on our bike or by train. And i must admit Holland has a great bike infra-structure with really good bicycle lanes etc. As Jos said there are movements like Critical Mass in Holland but maybe not so active as elsewhere but maybe that's because Holland is a bicycle country so it's not that urgent....although cars & the pollution it creates are still a real big problem especially because we are such a small country and everything is so cramped together. It's a lack of our goverment to support public transport like the train, the dutch state used to own the railway but they privatized it and since it became commercial it got so expensive! We think public transport should be FREE so people would take the train instead of the car. And let's use the BIKE more!!!!!! -- What else are your hobbies? What are your favorite books and movies? What is your everyday life like? Jos: i work 4 days a week as a prinicipal of an elementary school. that takes quite some time away off me. besides seein red i also play in kriegstanz. my other hobbies are reading and off road biking. favorite books include almost anything. same goes for movies. i guess 1900 is my favorite movie ever Paul: My hobbies are basically seein'red, i write most of the lyrics and the music and that takes a lot of time. But beside the band i love to listen to music(also non-punk/hc stuff like: jazz, blues, soul-funk, hip-hop, sixties punk&beat etc), see movies, read books, mountain-biking, and going on train-trips to cities like Amsterdam, Utrecht, Den Haag etc or just a quite walk in a park or wood. Favourite movies: The Warriors, Evil Dead trilogy, Fargo, the big lebowski, resevoir dogs, pulp fiction, kill bill, do the right thing, Turks fruit, trainspotting, fucking amal, reds, Lords of the rings trilogy, The matrix, Bullet in the head, amoros peros, a clockwork orange, the godfather trilogy, 21 gramms, marathon man, jaws, billy elliot, repoman, bullet in the head, hero, american history x, spiderman, bowling for columbine, faherenheit 9/11, dawn of dead, manhattan,.... and just lots more, i'm pretty much a movie-freak. Favourite books: Communist Manifesto by Marx/engels, England's dreaming by John Savage, Che Geuvara biography by Jean Cormier, Dance of days by Mark andersen & Mark jeniks, Our world is our weapon by subcomandante Marcus, The black panther speaks by Fernon, Punk by colegrave & sullivan, Our band could be your life Michail Azerad, Spiels of a minuteman by Mike watt, Marx by Francis Wheen, Ik jan cremer by Jan cremer, Turks fruit by Jan Wolkers, Links by Boudewijn B?h, Een magistrale stralende zon by Johnny van Doorn, 10 dagen by John Reed, Get in the van by Henry Rollins etc etc etc. My everyday life? Well 4 days a week i work as a garbageman, that basically means that i get up around 6:00 and go to work and come home around 17:00. All what's left than is the evening to cook food and eat, reading the newspaper, listening to music or reading a book or zines. Watching the 18:00 & 20:00 news programs on TV, watching a movie or whatever, mainly trying to relax from a hard days work. Olav works 5 days a week at the Gamma on the reproduction office so his week is mostly occupied by his work; but after work he also answers the e-mails, keeps the seein'red web-site going, print covers and lyricsheets for our records and print stickers as well and he like to play computergames riding his bike and stuff. Olav has also bought an 8-track anolog recorder and mixingboard with which he record & mix our songs. On my so called "free" days(=thursday & the weekend) i write lyrics and try to make new songs, listen to music a lot, mountain-biking, answering the letters and e-mails. On Sunday we always practice with the band, a lot of the times on friday or saturday we have to play a concert. Go to demonstrations and political meetings. Go to punk/hc shows. Visit my mother regulary. Or just do one of my hobbies. And sometimes my everyday life is just fucking boring and i do nothing. I mean there are times that i'm very active with the band, with music, with politics, resistance and stuff, but there are also times that there's nothing happening. And i must admit since i got older and i got this regular job, it's pretty much harder to do all the things that i used to do as a young kid & teenager. Getting older sucks a lot of energy out of you in some way. But it does not mean that i am desperate or whatever, compared to people my age i'm actually very active and still do things that most people over 40 will never do. -- We often hear that in Holland, the sqaut movement is (was?) very active. Do the squats and the squat movement have strong connections to the punk/hardcore scene? Have you also been involved in the squat movement? In Japan, sqauts are like non-existent, so it would be cool if you can introduce to us a bit about sqauts and the movement. Jos: in the eighties we used to have concerts at squats overhere. right now we are not really involved in it anymore. the squatting of houses and buildings has become more and more difficult. there are some long lasting ones, but most do not survive longer than a year. it is good to see that younger people are getting into it again. an informative site is http://www.squat.net Paul: The Squatmovement is still very active but new laws has made it a lot more difficult to squat. But you're right the squat-movement always and still have strong connections with the punk/hc scene. Most punk & diy-places in Holland are still squats or legalized squats. We have been involved in the squatmovement; especially during the '80's and early 90's we did squat our own places here in Amersfoort like De Hof, De grachtkerk,het Koetshuis & de kelder, in which we would run our own punkcentre with a bar & room to organize concerts & meetings etc.We called it: Het Kippenhok. Sadly enough these times are pretty much over because its more difficult to squat and the local punkscene is really small now. There's a new young generation of squatters and they are still active in our hometown but they are hardly connected with the punkscene anymore. But if we can help them out with benefit-concerts or whatver we do so. -- We imagine that you rarely watch TV or if you do, you're not the type that has blind faith in mass media, so where do you obtain alternative information and knowledge? Where do you look to for information/knowledge that would enable one to have a free mind, just like you sing in the song "Life Pattern"? It seems that in many countries, on the internet, Indymedia plays a big role, but how about Holland? Also, are there many places in your neighborhood, such as infoshops, book stores, cafes, etc... that people can go to, to obtain alternative information? Jos: in our neighborhood there are none, but holland is small so amsterdam and utrecht are really close. overthere there are some good infoshops and bookstores that supply loads of magazines and newspapers providing news from a different angle. internet plays a big role overhere as well. Paul: We do watch tv but not that much; and yes we do not have blind faith in the mass-media. Although i must say that in Holland there are a few tv stations that are pretty good with their news, documentaries and other sources of info! We do look for information/knowledge from books, good newspapers(in Holland we do have some pretty objective and critical newspapers),anarchist & communist zines/papers, the internet is ofcourse a source where you can get loads of alternative info & knowlegde like Indymedia but also a site like Broad-left(with a huge archive of radical & alternative websites etc). At the moment in Amersfoort there is no info-shop anymore but in a nearby city like Utrecht or Amsterdam you do have info-shops and a real good left-bookshops where you can obtain alternative information. And there are also people who bring books & alternative zines to punk/hc concerts so there is always a way to get your hands on alternative info. -- Two of our collective members make their own punk zine (Expansion of Life), but are there a lot of punk zines in Holland? The featured theme for the next issue of "Expansion of Life" is something like "on the road/reclaiming the streets/reclaiming public spaces". Can you give us a message of some sort loosely based along that theme? Jos: there are few punkzines overhere unfortunately. it seems to be that the internet has replaced them. reclaiming the streets: power to the people! Paul: There used to be a big punkzine culture in Holland, especially in the '80's, 90's but in this new millenium most info is shared through internet by internet zines & so called message-boards etc. There are still some zines left but they come out very irregular. One zine that's pretty active is RE-FUSE made by the people and friends of Coalition Records. We support the reclaim the streets/public spaces movement, but we talked earlier about our monitored society and how our government spend more and more money on the police-force and security forces, the ID cart, the telephone & computer tabs etc, which makes it fucking hard to do actions like this. The system we live in has become more intollerant and reppresive, almost like some police-state, and in such a political climate it's really hard to do these kind of actions. The police react more brutal, you end up in jail longer etc etc. But having said this, we will not stop the struggle because as Marx said:"WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR CHAINS!". And that's still true, we are still slaves/prisoners of the current political system and if we really want to get out of jail we have to break the chains and resist all oppressive conditions with music, actions, poems, movies, books, art etc. creating a culture of resistance! All Power To The People!!! SEEIN' RED Website SEEIN' RED Live in Tokyo